Thursday, March 31, 2011

Stripping!

I'm guessing the title of this post will get a bit of attention, at least until they see the picture LOL Yep, I'm still stuck in the bathroom stripping paint = ( Lucky Tom has moved on to demolishing the east kitchen and even starting to rebuild it and there I am with the sander buzzing away. I'm thinking this is truly the project from hell LOL And it all started out so innocently!

The bead board in the west bathroom truly is beautiful, at least what I've uncovered, and I know that it's worth saving. Just one piece to be used for repairs costs around $10 and is just soft pine, not the nice old heartwood we have. The job is kicking my fanny though. Since it's lead paint I chose to use a chemical stripper rather than the hazards of sanding. I got a big container of Lead Out by Re-Me-Diate and painted the stinky stuff on according to the directions. It worked pretty well and has the benefit of converting the lead to a non-toxic EPA safe form. Unfortunately it works by breaking the bond between paint layers and about three layers from bare wood it met old style oil paint and stopped working. Worse, it left a sticky, glue like layer that was impossible to scrape off and soon dried to the consistency of putty. I ordered another container, waited weeks for it to arrive and finally canceled. The company provided a refund with no trouble but at this point I think I'd rather have had the stripper LOL

Since the lead is now not a worry I decided to re-scrape the walls and then try sanding. The scraping took over a week which should have been my first clue. And it also ruined another knife which now makes three total for the project. The putty stuff builds up and is impossible to remove or wash off. The stuff doesn't even grind off! LOL This week I started sanding and was just positive things would go well. Hmm . . . back to that 'reality sucks' thing. Tom's Black & Decker sander didn't make a dent in the stuff and after one day poohed out with a bad switch. The new sander has more power, enough that I have trouble stopping it from dragging me around the room but it still doesn't remove the putty-like stuff. Seems more power isn't always good and what's happening now is the heat from the sander is just making things stickier. Today I spend a good five hours grinding away and managed to clean only a 2 by 3 foot section or so. Not a lot to show for how badly my wrists hurt LOL At this point less that one wall is done after a four day's work with the remaining surface way too rough and sticky to even consider painting and I'm fresh out of ideas. Tom's thinking maybe a flap wheel while I'm about ready to try one of those wire brush things. So far I'm still under budget compared to what it would have cost to just put up dry wall over the stuff but at the rate I'm burning sandpaper things are getting expensive fast. Ugh! So much for a good idea, huh? LOL Saturday new cauldron crew girl Mandy will be helping out and even bringing her own sander so silly me still has hope. In the meantime I'm taking a well deserved day off to recover. If anyone has suggestions for getting things moving along a bit better I'd love to hear them!

In the meantime our other projects have been going well. Tom's making good progress on the east kitchen and I conquered the hated slide show project so you can see pictures of our progress through the site instead of scrolling around the blog. Both Julie and Brandie made appearances this week; Julie primed the east bathroom and Brandie pitched in hand sanding the bit of progress I'd made with the walls. I also treated 'us girls' to goodies - Murano glass pendants that look like lovely spring flowers. We may be stiff, sore and grubby but at least we'll look cute! LOL Hopefully things will look better when I get back to the cauldron on Saturday but if not ya know where I'll be for the next few weeks LOL And btw, for those in the area, stop by and say 'hey' Saturday night up at Whiskey Venue. Big birthday party and both Blaming Alice and Diesel are playing!

Wednesday, March 23, 2011

Reality Bites!

Have you ever though you had a really good idea and then the actual situation, aka reality, sneaks up and bites you in the fanny? Welcome to our world! LOL I'm quickly finding out there's a big difference between what Tom and I want and think we're going to do at the cauldron and what actually happens. Case in point . . .

At the beginning (that would be when we were naive and not aching in every joint) we had great plans of cutting corners by using a lot of the original materials. "The walls are fine", we said. "This vanity will work great with a coat of paint." Uh huh, right. Reality set in and at the moment the place looks like Jericho after the walls came tumbling down LOL The first to go were the west bathroom walls which btw, I am still stripping. Long story short - the second batch of stripper never arrived so I'm reduced to hand scraping the years of gunk and dried first coat of stripper. At last estimate I figure it'll take another 3 days at least before I even think about sanding them. But hey, it keeps me out of trouble and I'm getting some nice definition in my upper arms LOL

With me hogging the bathroom (typical woman) Tom set to work in the east bath where we had also planned to keep the old wallboard. Well, he did, I wasn't so happy with it although I agreed it wasn't all that bad. Next thing I knew, down it came along with the vanity we had hoped to save. Just too much work needed to repair each and even after the work neither would look decent. Tom spent days putting up new drywall - the man is obsessive about muddling his joints LOL - while I juggled the decorating budget to make up for the extra expense. The juggling thing has actually been fun and led to my current project of painting tile. Being a bit of an overachiever it's not enough that I have to learn to cut and install tile but apparently now I think I also need to decorate with hand painted tiles on a shoestring budget. Seriously though, a Mexican color scheme just screams for those ornate painted tiles and they're like $5 each and up! And yeah, yeah, I know, it's just a rental but it's our rental and ya know already we're a bit different LOL

Between the scraping during the day and the tile painting at night Tom's been able to work in blissful peace without my chattering but it's maybe not such a good thing. It seems that as the evening goes along and weariness sets in one beer leads to another and a certain someone goes into destruct mode. First he peeked behind a wall in the east kitchen to repair a cupboard and didn't like what he saw. Then I opened my mouth and asked for the rest of the old bath wallboard to be removed from the connecting hall and before ya could blink the kitchen was naked down to it's lath! That was way cool! Not the mess, which Tom kindly cleaned up, or the work but all the discoveries. I'll admit to being a bit of a renovation geek and I enjoy peeling apart the old layers of wallpaper and poking around de-construction debris. Tearing off the old wallboard exposed a slew of different papers which were in fairly decent condition. We were even able to see a bit of the original paper although it's not likely we'll be able to save any. And Tom found the baseboard molding was still attached with the original square head nails! This is by far the oldest building I've worked on and those bits of history have been great to find. Later this summer it's going to be a fun puzzle to research the place and its beginnings and possibly even find some old photos. I think they'd be great to hang in the entrance way = )

During the few spring days we had recently, before the current round of ice and snow, I was even able to get a bit of work done outside. The sidewalk along the east side that had been buried under weeds and dirt is now clear and the back patio even got raked so we're not walking through muck and leaves. Rocking chairs for the front porch were purchased and assembled and are just waiting on Tom to install some anti-theft tethers and the return of spring and sunshine. I also braved my notoriously un-green thumb and planted Jiffy Pots with herb and flower seeds for the back yard. With luck, or perhaps replacements from the local nursery, we'll have a kitchen herb garden similar to what might have grown there originally as well as some old-time 4'o'clocks this summer. Heck, I'm thinking if I add a tomato and a few pepper plants we can even keep the tenants in fresh salsa - or us LOL

Tuesday, March 8, 2011

Flood City USA


Have ya noticed a lag in the updates here? LOL That was some great weather we had locally the past few weeks. Tons of snow followed by one of our famous Findlay floods. Living on the river is one thing but we're starting the high water way too early in the year for comfort. Not like many of you haven't experienced the same thing for yourself even if you're not from our area. Just a nasty thing that leaves you nervously watching for raindrops for months after. The cauldron folk are blessed to be relatively free of water trouble though. Tom's basement situation improved with his addition of a back flow valve and the cauldron building gets water only in the basement. The picture above would be the view from the basement steps LOL I got swamped due to a sudden pump failure but no damage done and Brandie and Julie both stayed high and dry.

Most of the past two weeks has been spent shoveling and walking. First digging out and helping Tom shovel from the last snow then walking between our three places and the downtown area staring at the rising water. When the water receded the sun made a short appearance and we took advantage of the brief nice weather to haul out all the junk and construction debris that had piled up. Around a ton according to Tom! My part was loading up the truck which was a pretty interesting task considering quite a few of the pieces were bigger than I am LOL I learned also that it takes a pretty hefty person to break wallboard into pieces and that person wouldn't be me. I have the bruises to prove it too! I swear we need to install cameras around the place for comic relief. Here I am, trying to break this sheet of wallboard that's like 10 foot by 4 foot and I've got it bent almost in half but the dang thing is fighting and bucking like a mule. I get the bright idea to climb on top of the thing and finally get it to snap in half and yep, I go crashing to the floor! I'm still limping a bit but the worst part is no one saw it to laugh over . . . or get pictures! I can't imagine my expression when I landed LOL

This week has also been a bit difficult. With Tom on a wall removing rampage we discovered the west bathroom still had the original bead board walls = ) Of course I wanted to save them and really, it's a good idea. It's all old wood and people would pay a fortune to be able to put it in their fancy homes. Tom wisely left me to the project and wandered off to tackle gutting the east bath while I researched lead paint removal. Scary stuff, huh? Luckily I found a great chemical stripper that is non-toxic and renders the lead into something safe. Here in a week or so I'll give ya a full report on the forum board for future reference. Those who have stripped paint chemically before will likely already be chuckling. Yeah, I'm dumb enough to attempt it on an entire room. Including the ceiling. Yeah, I'm regretting it but not really. It'll be worth it. And yeah again, Tom is kind of chuckling too and shaking his head. It goes something like this . . .

Saturday I mix up this huge bucket of goo, watery gray color and about the consistency of snot. It brushes on the walls pretty well but on Saturday it was also raining so while I'm smearing this stuff around it's also raining in the bathroom and dripping into three different buckets. Half way through the first wall the smell starts to become noticeable. This is one of those nice non-hazardous materials so the fumes aren't harmful and at the beginning only smell like rotten eggs. By wall two my throat was raw and even Tom was coughing in the other room LOL Still, I'm confident as the old paint is already beginning to bubble. I follow the directions and check the progress after five hours and then start removing it at 24 hours. Yeah. Right. You know that rubber stuff they use to glue gift cards and such onto paper with? The stuff you have to rub and pull forever to get off? Well, on Sunday I had four walls and a ceiling coated with stuff even stickier than that. No lie! I'm wearing rubber gloves and my hands are stuck to the paint scraper so tightly that the gloves tear when I try to release the scraper! LOL Nothing other than huge effort is moving that paint. I got about a third of one wall done before I was too tired to lift another arm and went home defeated to do some more research.

As it turns out we have a problem aka the situation isn't my fault = ) Some of you may remember when there was a compatibility issue between the oil based paints used years ago and latex paint when it first came out. The stripper I used works by breaking the bond between paint layers and since that compatibility issue caused no bond to form the stripper stopped working. It thought its job was done LOL The solution was to scrape off what I could and then apply a second coat. Luckily Tom's sister Julie had a few days off work and bad timing for offering to volunteer. She and I spent the past two days stripping in the bathroom together . . . hehehe Actually, we worked our fannies off but finally the first peeling is done, more or less. I also learned I should have blocked off the furnace duct as its constantly blowing heat on the ceiling caused the stripper to dry hard as a rock. Round two will come over the weekend when I try the second coat. I've got a picture of the stripping process so once the project is done you'll likely see it in a slide show LOL

The rest of this week will hopefully be a bit easier. Tom checked out the roof today and depending on the weather he may start repairs as early as next week. This Saturday, besides a benefit at the Whiskey Venue, we'll be taking a break from the renovations to check out floor and wall tile at the Home Depot in Bowling Green. That's seriously major excitement for me and I can't wait to get started putting things back together a bit. And it serves as a day off and a chance to unwind a bit together. Tom can actually see me clean and not reeking of sulfur for a change = ) Things are moving along well and getting more exciting although the arrival of spring begins a new dress code for the cauldron - umbrellas definitely needed LOL Beyond the three buckets in the only working bathroom there's a steady drip directly over the commode seat. The leak in the west kitchen is growing by leaps and bounds and tomorrow I'm looking for a kiddy wading pool to even try to cover the space. We've started the habit again of always checking the ceiling before entering a room given the state of things there and also water dripping into the downstairs break area. We're not a hard hat zone yet but if ya visit you'll need to be on your toes =)

Wednesday, February 23, 2011

Unearthing Surprises

Wow, long time no update! I could almost feel guilty if we hadn't been so busy LOL In some ways it seems like nothing has changed enough to report on but in other ways it seems everything has changed. My 'job' of cleaning really hasn't progressed all that much, only the single room at the top of the stairs added to the done list. Not that I was slacking off but that Tom has been so busy I've spent more time as his clean up crew than playing janitor. First it was a few boards here and there and then it became whole walls LOL Lots of discoveries along the way too!

In reorganizing the mechanics so each apartment has it's own water heater and furnace Tom has been working in a closet off the east apartment shuffling things and making room. The adjoining area is the west apartment is a strange out-of-place type area so one day he decided to investigate. Removing a full length mirror on one wall he discovered the wall behind the mirror to be pretty much missing. Possibly punched or kicked out, hard telling. Beyond the damage to the wall he also discovered a doorway! At some point in time there was a hallway type passage between what is now the kitchen/bath area of the two spaces. We're not sure what the original floor plan was and can't guess as to it's use but it's been great fun popping in and out of each place using the passage. With all the cubby-holes, passageways and places Tom's been getting into with his repairs I actually resorted to yelling 'MARCO!' one evening just to find him LOL

Another surprise we had recently was our first experience in considering crime and the cauldron perhaps being a victim. A misplaced set of keys led to a flurry of lock changing and pointed out some glaring lapses in security on our part. While the keys were found safe and secure I got my own taste of being a victim at the same time. In my hurry to get to the cauldron and help with the lost key issue I neglected to make sure my front door was closed tightly and gave a thief the opportunity he was looking for. Luckily the loss was no more than my iPod and a few dollars but it was scary and unsettling and left me feeling both angry and foolish. Valuable lessons learned in both cases though and likely worth far more than any material loss. If any readers stop by for a visit to the cauldron though you'll now find you need to knock on the door and wait for it to be unlocked rather than just walk in (wink).

Our latest surprise came while Tom was working on the new bathroom fixtures in the east apartment. If you haven't noticed from the pictures both bathrooms and kitchens have decorative wall paneling. These are printed boards, or in some cases shiny plastic, held up by plastic strips. Either through settling of the building or possibly an installation problem the boards don't meet each other or the trim work and they're terribly marked up and dirty. My immediate solution was to rip them all out but reality, budgets and Tom required them to be kept if possible. Turns out it's not possible . . . hehehe Being an old building there's not a scrap of insulation in the walls and apparently Tom found damage or problems that need to be addressed behind the wall board so it all needs to go. That's actually probably the best news I've received so far this week LOL Not just in my wanting to get rid of the old stuff and the increase in cost isn't welcome but being able to insulate, especially in the bath, and having decent walls that are easy to maintain is really fortunate. At least in my warped mind LOL Insulation leads to more comfortable and happy tenants with lower utility bills and a happier me paying the bills until the place is occupied. And the maintenance thing is a huge plus!

I might be naive, probably am, but my thought is if we start out with something looking nice and we keep it nice that will encourage our tenants to do the same. I mean, if you rent an apartment and the walls are marred up, stained and all what exactly is the incentive to not cause further damage and dirt? LOL It seems logical that if a tenant is presented with a place where it is obvious that effort has been put into upkeep they will be encouraged to take pride in keeping it nice. Ok, quit laughing LOL I can just imagine the comments I'll get from experienced landlords out there! It's the pagan-ish way though - expect the best from people and you'll often get it. We'll see in the future how reality treats that belief . . .

Monday, February 7, 2011

A Pot to Piss In

It's been awhile between updates and we've made a ton of progress since the last post. We did go out that Saturday and had even more reason to celebrate. Finally, after many long hours Tom had the plumbing replaced enough to provide a working commode. He also surprised me with the news that he'd hooked up one of the old water heaters so we even had warm water for scrubbing! I think we were a bit giddy as we stayed out way too late acting silly and guzzling beers. Sorry to say I forgot the camera. Instead I've decided to treat you to a glimpse of Tom's world. The new slide show has some of the tangle of pipes he's been sorting through, views of the area between floors he crawls around in and even a few shots of the scary basement with it's assorted 'treasures'. Luckily this is as close as you and I will ever get to these places LOL

With water available the scrubbing began, first in the downstairs space we call the break room and offices. The camera-shy Julie and I spent days vanquishing cobwebs, washing down woodwork and driving out years of dust and dirt. The place fairly shines now! Of course we also added a few female touches - snacks, scented candles and crystals - and we did a bit of shifting of the furniture. A few bar stools from WalMart and some elbow grease turned the beat up counter into a great bar style seating area while moving the sofa across from the gas heater provided a cozy place to relax and watch the flames. Just ask Tom. The day after we'd finished the room he treated himself to a two hour nap on the couch! LOL

The huge snowstorm that hit most of us held progress up for a bit and brought more piles of snow as well as a short bout with frozen pipes but no real issues. Good thing since the plumbing work looks as if it will continue for awhile. At latest report we now have working plumbing in all areas of the west apartment but in the process lost almost all the fixtures. The showers all need replacing and to hear Tom tell it every drain in the place leaks. Well, almost every drain. There's one that doesn't leak but in that case the faucet leaks LOL Tomorrow's work crew will be busy carrying out the pieces of the gutted bathrooms. And yep, just in case you're wondering, the working toilet stayed. It'll be a bit lonesome in the bathroom until we get the other fixtures replaced but better a lonely commode than the bucket.

This past week we also began in earnest to make decisions on those areas where it's safe to begin renovation. Or at least not subject to water leaks and falling ceilings. The entrance hall will be the first to be redone and I'm finding the flooring issue to be frustrating. Not only don't we want to be typical landlords and use the cheapest materials possible but we both have unique styles and tastes and it doesn't seem this translates well. So far meetings with various flooring salesmen and installers have resulted in complete failure. Apparently the entire world is in love with ceramic tile, or at least the entire world except for us. Truthfully I'm really getting tired of being told what I should want or that I'm an idiot. Heads up flooring guys! Unless I'm making a bad choice for safety or durability reasons please keep your opinions to yourself. I'm the customer and if I want solid gold tiles that's my choice and it's your job to smile and nod and get the job done! Seriously, this is going to be a running theme during the renovation stage LOL

I'm not sure if it's just the natural arrogance of someone professional in their field or the fact that I'm a woman or what. I go to the home improvement store, explain carefully and with proper terms what I'm looking for and why only to be told I should want the exact opposite. And never a logical reason for their beliefs! The other night I got into a disagreement with a flooring expert over my desire for a slate floor in the entry. Tom and I ruled out sheet vinyl and vinyl tiles as being too easily damaged and hard to repair. I personally don't care for natural wood in an entry, especially a public one, as I find it hard to clean and very noisy. Carpet was also out for cleaning reasons leaving natural stone or ceramic tile as our remaining choices. While natural stone is more expensive to install it has the virtue of damage such as chips not being noticeable and well, it's natural. It's also cheaper than the fake stone look ceramics. But here's this expert, and I have no doubt that he is an expert, calling me an idiot over my choice! According to him ceramic is the only way to go for tile (of course, it's easier for him to install) and since this is ONLY a rental there's no sense putting in a nice floor to begin with (can we say slum lord?) And this is a man who's hoping to get my business? Calling me an idiot because I choose to remodel my building according to my taste and likes? ROFL

As it turned out though, he was right. I don't want slate. Not because of anything he said. Truthfully when asked why we didn't want slate he could give no reason at all. As a result of the disagreement though I felt insecure enough to double check my research and in the process I discovered what I truly wanted. Satillo Terra Cotta tile LOL As economical, durable and damage hiding as slate with the easy installation of ceramic tile and a natural product made in the same way as it's been done for centuries, by hand. The tie in with our interests though is what really did it for me. Tom and I have traveled to Mexico several times and I've long wanted to move there for the slower paced lifestyle and climate. To be able to incorporate a bit of ourselves and our interests into the building seems such a natural and wonderful thing that I'm not sure any other flooring would now work LOL We'll see though. We're finding out there's a lot of reality between us and some dreams and we have a long way to go before there's actually a new floor.

Friday, January 28, 2011

Communication

This past week has seen a great deal of progress with the cauldron. It's amazing how much easier it is to work when everything isn't covered with ice and bone cold! LOL With the help of Brandie and Tom's sister Julie we got the upstairs apartments broom swept and much of the water leak damage cleaned up and Brandie and I braved years of dust to clean the ceiling fans and lights in the shop area. I ended up replacing 20 light bulbs and only one of the fan lights works completely but it's a huge improvement over the single 100 watt bulb. Tom moved one of the refrigerators into our break area and after vacuuming and a few hours of scrubbing it's clean, running well and stocked with beer, water and soda. Life's necessities LOL I've also been treated to almost nightly updates from Tom as he continues to put in long hours getting the mechanics running and that's the topic for this week's entry.

We've all heard plenty about how men and women communicate differently; men being generally of few words while women prefer to chew a subject to death. One of the things I considered in starting this adventure was how we'd manage to not drive each other crazy and still be 'equal' partners in the decisions and stay informed. Email. And lots of notes LOL Take note here ladies, a short and to the point note works far better than all the nagging in the world! Besides, you always have proof against the ever present complaint of 'You never told me that!" But seriously, notes and email have done wonders for keeping the communication end relaxed. I can send Tom a few words such as "this is the tile I'd like for the entry" with a link to the site and he can read it when he pleases. If he's had a rough day and my chatter is the last thing he wants to hear it an email makes no noise and is easily ignored. His updates in return save me from asking an endless stream of questions trying to pry out answers while following him around the building like a lost puppy LOL And truthfully, the emails are hysterical and tell me everything I need to know about the progress and also Tom's mood. The latest, received tonight, is a good example and will update you on our current state of affairs.

welll more good news/bad news lol...good news....we have running water in the back room....bad news the drains don't drain so well....good news... we have hot running water in the back room..... bad news....the roof in the west apt is drippin purdy bad.. i put a bucket under the drip... gonna have to keep an eye on it so it don't over flow... good news...i temporarily have water to the west apt toilet....bad news... the seals leak and the guts look dry rotted......ohh and did i mention the drains don't drain so well?!?!? thinkin it might have backed up into the sink downs stairs that i just installed... well shower...beer....food... maybe whiskey hehehehe

Ya just gotta admire a guy who can laugh in the face of drains that hold water and ceilings that don't after spending the week working what amounts to a double shift - work AND building repair LOL Seems a reward is in order so as official Health, Safety and Comfort officer of The Silver Cauldron I'm taking Mr. Tom out to hear one of his favorite bands tomorrow night, Rock 'n Roll Outlaws. I might even buy him a shot or two ; ) Maybe you'll be lucky and I'll post a few pictures of the band. If you're near Findlay on Saturday evening stop by the Whiskey Venue for some good music and to congratulate us on not killing each other as we settle into our new roles.

Friday, January 14, 2011

Blessed heat!

Hey, hey, we are warm! At least in a few rooms. LOL Tom emailed last night that he had the heater going in our break area although when he had last checked he could still see his breath. This morning I went over to mess with the window coverings a bit and do some cleaning and hesitantly stuck my nose in the door of the living space adjacent to the store. It was warm! = ) If the heater hadn't been so dang dusty I swear I'd have hugged it! The majority of the building is iceberg cold but at least we can take a break and warm up occasionally. Much nicer than setting a space heater on the counter and huddling around it. LOL

Although Tom's success with the heat is by far the best news I had a bit of success myself in conquering the photo program for this blog. You'll find new shots up of the Cauldron including a few of the backyard taken before the snow arrived. The place looks bigger now that it's relatively clutter free although the cleaning is still in progress. I'm slowly working my way upstairs. One more room and the entire lower floor will be cleared of cobwebs and the worse of the dust, ready for a good wash whenever water arrives. There's quite a few pictures of the hall and stairs in this batch as that will be my first project once heat is on in the main area. The ceilings are free of water damage and hopefully are unlikely to get any. BFFs StarSnow and Brandie have been helping with the color scheme and getting the first impression right. As you can see, it's a narrow space, kind of chopped up, so we're keeping it simple; turquoise walls for Tom's tropical cravings, lighter tone ceiling with white trim and refinished natural woodwork. No way he's going to let me paint that trim! LOL I'm hoping for some sort of vinyl floor for easy cleaning, possibly a large black and white check. StarSnow bailed me out on the decorations by suggesting a few pictures of doorways; non-offensive, not to girl-y yet sort of symbolic, ya know? I've found some really nice things showing Mexican and Caribbean doors that will bring in our love of those areas yet not look weird when there's two foot of snow outside LOL

Outside of the building the blog has been picking up a few readers, most notable being the man himself, Tom. Apparently he was curious the other night, typed The Silver Cauldron, Findlay, Ohio into his browser and up we came. Now we'll have to watch what we say about him (wink) He appears to like the blog although gave the opinion that it needed sexier pictures. LOL I'm thinking warmer weather might help with that. All in all it was a great week for the cauldron between passing the gas company inspections and getting a bit of heat into the place. I think a day off is in order, maybe two. Have a few beers, watch the football games - go Steelers! - and see what it's like to have warm feet for a bit = )